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Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free? to enter the digital future

Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free? to enter the digital future

WIM digital

Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free? will soon be available online!

I am working on a new video project at the moment, but I am also working to convert each of the 4 DVDs of Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free? to a lower quality online downloadable product. We are working hard so that those with computers around the world may also have access to the DVDs.  The entire set will be available for purchase online or each DVD in the 4 DVD set will be available individually as a video download.  We have upgraded the security on our website and we are presently working through all of the logistics to make this all possible.  it is a huge step forward for our ministry.  If all goes well, we will start offering the downloadable version this fall (2012).  Please watch this blog for further information for the launch of the downloadable version.

The DVDs also include audio bytes from those who disagree with women in ministry and we break down the arguments and compare the arguments to the Scriptures.

The 4 DVDs are broken up into scriptural passages as follows: 

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Recommendation for WIM

Recommendation for WIM

WIM recommendation on Women in Ministry by Cheryl Schatz

In July 2011, I was privileged to be a special speaker at the IMF MORE conference in Lakeville, MN.  It has been an extremely busy time for me as we are still in construction of our new office and video studio, but God blessed the time we took away from our project to serve at the conference.  The General Secretary of IMF saw that my work in the DVDs was unique and he had the DVD set critiqued by two seminary professors.  Below is the recommendation sent to me from Pastor Frank Masserano:

It was a blessing to have you present “Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?” at IMF’s recent MORE Conference. I reviewed the four DVDs carefully prior to the conference and had two New Testament and Biblical Language professors at two separate ATS accredited seminaries review your research.

While both differed a bit on some textual issues, they both overwhelmingly recognize the excellence of your research and the general conclusions you reached.

Many of our people (men and women) were greatly blessed by your presentations and the humble and Christ-like spirit you and Richard exhibited in our midst.

Thank you again and congratulations on your excellent research and well prepared presentation on DVDs. I would recommend the set to any pastor for presentation to his or her church leadership, congregation or women’s groups.

In Christ,
Pastor Frank Masserano
General Secretary IMF

Julie Pennington-Russell talks about the Georgia State Convention

Julie Pennington-Russell talks about the Georgia State Convention

Thanks to one of the followers of my blog, I received a link to some excellent clips about Julie Pennington-Russell’s talks about the Georgian State Convention and issue of the church being kicked out of the GBC.  The clips were record before the official word came through about the removal of her church from association.

julie_pennington-russell

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Women in ministry issue causes distrust

Women in ministry issue causes distrust

Distrust

This post is from an inspiration I got from Katie Cole’s blog and a two-part segment on YouTube on the issue of women in ministry from the series “Designing Women”.  Katie writes:

One Bible verse, quoted to me out of context on its own, is no longer sufficient for me.

I think you will find the two YouTube clips inspiring.  They show that women can speak up and women can make a difference.

Clip 1:  Charlene loses faith in her minister

Clip 2:  Charlene speaks to minister and Julia sings

Woman called by God as missionary now has regrets

Woman called by God as missionary now has regrets

Testimony from a woman who watched WIM DVD

Recently, I received an email from a woman who purchased my 4 DVD set “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” and then wrote me about the impact that the DVDs had on her.  I was so touched by her testimony that I asked permission to share her story with the world.  I have removed her name as she requested anonymity because of her situation.  I hope that you will be encouraged and touched as I was when I read her story.

rope2 on Women in Ministry blog by Cheryl Schatz

 

_____________________________________

Dear Cheryl,

I’m not sure if you are the one I should write to, but I wanted to let someone know that I watched the DVDs “Women in the Ministry” twice and my reactions to it.

For three days I was an emotional wreck.  I got angry, I cried, I’d stopped watching it and walked around the house talking to myself.  I fell to my knees and told God I didn’t understand.  I even was asked by others if I was feeling ok or if I was sick.  It tore me up inside.  Please, let me explain.

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The Trinity DVD is officially released!

The Trinity DVD is officially released!

The Trinity DVD is now in stock and available!  Orders can be placed on our web page for MM Outreach here for US orders or here for Canadian and overseas orders or the set is available through Amazon.com here.  Video review is available at the end of this post.

The Trinity: Eternity Past to Eternity Future
The Trinity Eternity Past to Eternity Future Explaining Truth Exposing Error

The debut of the 2 DVD set went over extremely well as two of the three sections in the DVD set were shown at a conference in Pennsylvania this past weekend.  Several of the apologists who attended the conference were surprised at the audio clips that are included in the DVDs of a popular Christian theologian who is teaching that Jesus is not to be prayed to because he not does have ultimate authority to hear and answer prayer.  His teaching that is being received into our seminaries and our churches makes Jesus unavailable for us to have a personal relationship with him since it is stated that Jesus is eternally subordinate in authority to the Father, making prayer useless unless it goes out only to the Father.  Many people commented that this information needs to be heard by pastors, theologians and lay people alike to call attention to the unbiblical teaching that has been coming into the church.

It is time that we stand up for the entire Trinity and give a sound biblical defense that deals with the attempts at downgrading Jesus Christ by appealing to his being sent by the Father, his submission as the human Son, and 1 Corinthians 15:28 the verse that many have appealed to, to claim that Jesus is lesser in authority than the Father for all of eternity.  These positions are soundly refuted in this DVD set and the eternity past to eternity future of the Trinity is biblically set forth as an eternal equality in authority seen in both the Old Testament revelation of the pre-incarnate Christ, as well as his eternal future in the eternality of the Godhead.

See an 8 minute compliation of several clips from this 2 DVD/3 section video at Youtube here.

Meet us in Pennsylvania

Meet us in Pennsylvania

For anyone in the Pennsylvania area who would like to meet us in person and see the premiere of “The Trinity Eternity Past to Eternity Future Explaining Truth Exposing Error”, we will be in the New Ringgold, PA area at the Witnesses Now For Jesus Convention at the Blue Mountain Christian Retreat  October 10-12th, 2008.  DVD #1 of the 2 DVD set will be shown at 3 pm on Saturday, October 11th.  Information on the conference can be found at http://pfo.org/wnfj2008.htm The sessions are free.  If you would like to stay for the entire conference, call the retreat centre at the link above for accommodations or see the list of motels in the area at the above link.  The convention has great testimonies and teaching sessions and lots of time for fellowship with a really wonderful group of ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian ministries.

The issue of the Trinity and how the eternal subordination of the Son has crept into the church since the 1970’s will be a hot topic at the convention and if you are also interested in this issue, please feel free to come by and introduce yourself to us.  We will be hosting a book table at the conference and will make ourselves available for discussion and questions before and after the sessions.

The unorthodox view of the Trinity related to women in ministry

The unorthodox view of the Trinity related to women in ministry

Wade Burleson has blogged on the Trinity and the unorthodox trend that has come into the church that teaches an eternally subordinated Son of God in the Trinity.

Wade writes:

The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is composed of many Southern Baptists who are introducing to evangelicalism a novel, if not peculiar, view of Christ which has more in common with Arianism than the historic, orthodox view of Christ’s person. The theologians and teachers who write for the CBMW are teaching what they call “the eternal subordination of the Son to the Father” as a basis for their hierarchal view that the female is to be subordinate to the male. Women’s subordination to man, according to the teachings of CBMW, is not a consequence of sin or a reflection of cultural values, but is built upon the heirachical order God established before the fall as a reflection of the Trinity.

This view of the Trinity has been used by some complementarians who have a lot of sway in Southern Baptist circles to support the functional subordination of women.  I would recommend that you read what Wade has written and then have a read through the comments on his blog as well.  It is a frightening thing to me to see the spread of this unorthodox doctrine and how many have accepted it as gospel truth.

It also comes at a very timely place for us as we are just getting ready to release our new 2 DVD set called “The Trinity: Eternity Past to Eternity Future, Explaining Truth & Exposing Error

The DVD will be availabe by mid October at http://mmoutreach.org/ or from Amazon.com.

(October 2008 update:  The DVD is now available and a preview is available on Youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLe-qF2nptA.)

Is ordination a requirement for a female Pastor?

Is ordination a requirement for a female Pastor?

Recently one of my blog posts has garnered some interesting comments regarding the issue of ordination. At the same time I received a request from a lady who believes that she has been called by God into ordained ministry. This post will deal with the issue of whether a female must be ordained to be a Pastor and the other comments regarding Paul and his ordination by Jesus will be moved to this post.

First of all there is the issue of whether a body of believer’s decision to reject the ordination of certain people constitutes a binding limit to a person’s gifting and calling from God. The question that I had posed earlier, is whether the leadership’s ordaining of a person actually makes them a legitimate Pastor? Also I was questioning whether the fact that one is rejected for ordination would take away a person’s calling from God to be a Pastor?

There have been times in the church where men thought that they could judge the gifts of God and that their own pronouncement was official. Because of this some of the books of the bible were not originally accepted as canonical but their rejection by some leaders did not take away the authority of these inspired books of the bible. In time the inherent authority in each inspired book of the bible was accepted. In this we see that the church did not have a right to make a book canonical. At best the church could only recognize a book as authoritative because it (the inspired book) had within it the witness to the inspiration of God. The final list of books was not chosen by a synod or council of the church. These met to ratify the books that the people of God had already chosen because of the witness of the scriptures themselves.

Now how does all of this relate to the ordination of a women Pastors? I personally believe that a true God-ordained choice of Pastor should be only to ratify and recognize what God has already chosen. Man’s ordination cannot make one a Pastor nor can the failure of some to recognize God’s gifting take away one’s gifting and calling from God.

Have you ever met a Pastor that was ordained but who did not have the fruits of the Spirit or the heart of a shepherd? Such a one is not a true Pastor gifted by Jesus himself. Jesus said that there would be hirelings who do not care for the sheep but who are there as shepherds for other reasons. These hirelings run away when the wolves come to make a meal of the sheep. The fact that they have been ordained by a church cannot truly make them a gift to the church. Only Jesus’ choice and gifting can do that.

Eph 4:7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

Eph 4:8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.”

Eph 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

So what does a woman do who has been called by God to be a Pastor but the leadership of the church that she attends will not recognize a woman as qualified to be a Pastor? Some women will stay within the denomination and work within the acceptance of the people within that church. While they may not have the official “title” of Pastor, they can operate within their gifting in an unofficial way. They can shepherd the flock in home bible studies and in small group settings or in one-on-one situations.

Yet others will feel the need to be officially recognized by the church in order to do the full work of a Pastor. These may stay in the church and earnestly contend for the truth in order to change the mindset of the leadership and the church itself. Or they may find the fight for their acceptance too draining and they may leave for a church that will accept their shepherding without a fight.

On one of my other posts I received this comment from “Called and wanting healing”:

I am living in the parish in England where this is what’s preached http://www.stalkmunds.stixworx.com/mp3/roleofwomen.mp3. It’s hard because I feel so called into ordained ministry. Could you post this up on your site so that it can be commented upon and critiqued. After all it has to have been interpreted differently for the Church of England to have decided to ordain women in 1994. For example, I do not understand how the vicar can say that biblical submission is to put yourself under someone’s authority – I thought it had more to do with putting their needs ahead of your own. The vicar talks of Christ and beauty of his submission but surely that was in sacrificing himself for us – atoning for us, dying for us – there’s the beauty!

If you want to post it on your site so that people can respond to it that would be great or if you could recommend someone else who would be able to offer an critique of this sermon.

Thanks so much.

I will put my comments later into the comment section of this post. I encourage others to listen to the audio and comment and encourage this dear sister too.

One comment that I will post here is that submission of one to another is commanded in the New Testament. The reason that submission is commanded is not so that one takes authority over another and the one under submission is to be the door mat of those who take the lead. Instead submission is commanded because one cannot use their God-given gift unless the body submits to accepting that gift. I operate in the gift of a teacher yet I cannot force my gift onto anyone. My authority is not to take authority over others but my authority is to give out what I have been gifted with by the authority of the word of God. 1 Peter 4:11 says:

1 Peter 4:11 Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances [or oracles] of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

My gift will always be there whether I am accepted or not, but it will not be of benefit to another unless that one submits to learn from me. Submission then is needed to receive another one’s gifts. Submission does not create the gift but it allows the gift to flow into one’s own life and for one’s benefit. When a church accepts a woman Pastor, that church is accepting the gift of God and submitting to learn what God has to say through her. When a church is influenced by prejudice and refuses to submit to learn from a woman, that church may not experience God’s best. What God gives is to be received with blessing and not with a heart of rejection.

Thoughts?

Update on video and home sale

Update on video and home sale

This past week has been an extremely busy one for me. I have been editing our Trinity DVD project and have gained a lot of ground by putting everything else pretty much on ignore. I want to take some time this week to post a few more articles so I will come out of the woodwork for a bit to get that done 😉

Also I am very pleased to give an update on the sale of our home. Today the conditions were removed on the offer to purchase our home and so it is officially sold and possession date will be June 20th. It has been a very difficult year financially with our old home on the market for a full year. We came here by faith just wanting to give our lives to serve the body of Christ and it has been a test by fire that we have survived. We are praising God for the blessing that he has given us in moving us on. We have been living by faith for a year now and we are very excited to see how God is going to continue to bless our ministry. We have given ourselves to full time ministry to teach the church not only how to minister to those lost in the cults, but how to love and accept sisters in Christ who have been called by God to use their God-given gifts for the benefit of the body of Christ. I was also very pleased last week to receive news that my DVD set “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free” will be used in a new doctoral program at a southern USA seminary to teach on the issue of women in ministry. I trust that many more women will be released into the service of the church and for the good of the body of Christ because the DVD series.

Trinity DVD update

Trinity DVD update

For those of you who are interested, we have finished filming our Trinity DVD and I am in the process of setting up the editing studio.  This may keep me off line for a day or two.  The editing will continue until about September when it goes for duplication.  The DVD is copyright 2008 and is called:

The Trinity eternity past to eternity future:  explaining truth, exposing error

This will be a 2 DVD set with my script as the 2nd DVD exposing the errors of the eternal functional subordination of the Son.  There are quite a few audio bytes in the DVD that should be quite surprising to many concerning what is now being taught as historic Trinitarian doctrine.

Hierarchical teaching influences the doctrine of the Trinity

Hierarchical teaching influences the doctrine of the Trinity

One of the ways that hierarchical teaching has influenced the church since the 1970’s is in the area of the doctrine of the Trinity. In hierarchical teaching, the Trinity is no longer three functionally equal persons who share the same nature. Instead Jesus and the Holy Spirit become functionally subordinate to the point that Jesus no longer has a will that is exercised. Instead of a functional equality with the Father, it is now claimed by some hierarchists that Jesus as the pre-incarnate Son of God had to have permission to create the world since the authority even for creation rested on the Father alone. It is also claimed that the Jesus is so unequal in authority with the Father that we are not biblically allowed to pray to Jesus or have intimate communication with him. These claims more closely resemble the teaching of some well-known cults than they do of historic Christianity.

Will the church stand back and allow the Trinity to be downgraded so that the persons of the Trinity are no longer equal in authority, in their will or their work? We are now seeing a ground swell of opposition to the hierarchical teaching that tries to equate women’s subordination with an re-invented eternal subordination within the Trinity (this is not the first time in church history that the issue of subordinationism has reared its ugly head). Our new DVD on the Trinity is just getting ready for filming in early May 2008 and the second DVD in this 2 DVD set will focus on a refutation of the hierarchical distortion of the Trinity. Although the subordination of women will not be mentioned in the DVD, the foundation of the modern subordination movement that bases the subordination of women on the supposed eternal subordination of Christ in the Trinity, will be thoroughly refuted. There will also be many audio clips from noted hierarchical teachers such as Bruce Ware that documents the faulty logic used to downgrade Jesus to a lesser authority than the Father (the same logic they use to downgrade women as under the authority of all men).

Others who are bringing to light the connection between the hierarchical movement and the subordination of the Son are doing a good job at drawing our attention to the attacks on the doctrine of the Trinity from within our Christian churches most notably from within the Southern Baptist Convention.

Be sure to read Wade Burleson’s blog post and Dr. Cynthia Kunsman’s post discussing the censorship that she has experienced by merely talking about patriarchy and views espoused by hierarchists such as Bruce Ware and CBMW.

We believe that our new DVD will bring to light evidence of the tampering of the Trinity by modern Evangelicals that may shock a lot of people. One thing that I have found most disturbing is that in the written material that I have read from Dr. Bruce Ware as well as in all of the lectures that I listened to by Ware on this subject, he never fails to connect the Trinity to the women’s issue and the subordination of women. This is extremely troubling to me that he would be so passionate to limit the full usage of women’s gifts in the church that he has become passionate in the last dozen or so years to make the Trinity an issue of eternal subordination. I do want to point out that in email correspondence with me Ware has denied that he sees Jesus as less than equal with the Father in function because he sees women also in the same lower “role”. However his inability to even discuss the Trinity without bringing the women’s issue into play makes his denial very suspect. Ware simply sees the two issues so intimately connected that he cannot discuss the Trinity without making application to the “glorious” pattern of male authority over women which is a reflection of the Trinity. I related to Bruce Ware that whether women are or are not subordinated to men does not reflect on the full equality of the Son. Ware does not see it this way. He has been one of several who have dedicated themselves to teaching the eternal subordination of the pre-incarnate Christ. This is not good nor is it right.

It is about time that we set up a flag in the ground and a line in the sand and say “No more!” We will fight for the truth and expose the error. No longer should we stand by to see Jesus dishonored by those who wish to remove his full and equal function as Deity.

Radio update and what's up in ministry

Radio update and what's up in ministry

It’s time for an update especially since I have been so busy that I haven’t been able to post much for awhile.

[Updated] First of all regarding the Boise Idaho radio station that will be broadcasting the audio version of my 4 DVD set “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?”, the radio station has confirmed the following dates and times [all times are Mountain time – for Eastern time add 2 hours]:

KBXL 94.1 FM

  • Saturday March 8, 2008 at 12 noon – segment one
  • Saturday March 15, 2008 at 12 noon – segment two
  • Saturday March 22, 2008 at 12 noon – segment three
  • Saturday March 29, 2008 at 12 noon – segment four

KSPD 790 AM

  • Saturday March 8, 2008 at 4 pm – segment one
  • Saturday March 15, 2008 at 4 pm – segment two
  • Saturday March 22, 2008 at 4 pm – segment three
  • Saturday March 29, 2008 at 4 pm – segment four

The programs can be listened to live at http://www.myfamilyradio.com/cms/index.php. Go to the top right hand corner for the live audio feed.

For those who haven’t been following my blog, the radio spots are free air time that I have been given because Matt Slick of “Faith and Reason” has been misrepresenting me and my teaching for months now and in December he made some very untrue statements that went far past the place of a Christian apologist. In fairness to me, the radio station that hosts Matt Slick’s program has agreed that it is only fair to present the opposing view in an honest and fair way so that the misrepresentation will be put to rest.

Secondly on an update on our ministry, there has been a type of closure on our fight with the Canadian government – a fight to have the freedom to preach the gospel to the lost souls in the cults. While it may appear to be a defeat, we believe very strongly that God has orchestrated the recent happenings so that we have actually expanded our vision past what our comfort zone has been.

Briefly, here are the things that have happened to this point. In 2007 there was a complaint to the Charities division of the government of Canada against the work that we do as a ministry. Our ministry is called MacGregor Ministries (MM Outreach for short and to represent the joining together of MacGregor Ministries and Media Ministries). The complaint resulted in an audit in June of 2007. While our books were fine, it was determined that there was a question about our qualification as a Charity since the majority of our gospel preaching focuses on the topic of the cults. Not only do we actively reach out to those who have lost their way in the cults but we also teach Christians how to reach Jehovah’s Witnesses and others in different cults and bring them to faith in Christ. This has been deemed as “uncharitable” by the Canadian government representative who took over our case from the original auditor.

We did retain a lawyer to help fight our case but there was not much we could do as the government agent was determined to shut down our ministry and squash our work with the cults. In the end we were given an ultimatum that our web site was to be “gone”, our products geared to reaching those in the cults for Christ were to be “gone”, we were to stop writing material on the cults and stop doing “persuasive” biblical teaching on DVD and finally that we were to treat all religions as equal in value with no teaching to be done as “persuasive”. This is completely unacceptable to us and would compromise our Christian faith. The only options available to us would be to shut down our own ministry and ask the Canadian government to de-register us or do nothing and wait until they come and get us and forcibly de-register the Charity themselves. We chose to be proactive and send in our letter voluntarily de-registering the Charity under protest.

The effects of de-registering the Charity is the same as having the government do this to us. In closing the Charity, it involves a 100% tax by the government. We had to dig deep into our savings to purchase our own editing equipment at fair market value and purchase our own stock of products at fair market value. The money generated by this “sale” along with the money we had saved up to build a state-of-the-art video/movie studio will either be confiscated by the government or we can give it away to a government approved charity. Everything that we have worked so hard for as volunteers for years (the MacGregor’s have put in 30 years of ministry and we have been working as volunteers in ministry since 1988) will be gone except for what we are able to purchase back (again!) with our own money.

So how is this a good thing? Well it has pushed us to go beyond our comfort zone and to look to the Lord and his call to us in ministry. The government of Canada is not the one who called us into ministry and the government of Canada cannot take us out of ministry. This has pushed us to take a step of faith that without this push from the threat of de-registration, we would never have stepped out in faith. We have with the support of a dear US friend, started a US corporation dedicated to continue on the ministry of preaching the gospel to those lost in the cults and this will be based in the US. We also have a Canadian corporation in place to do the work in Canada. This Canadian corporation will be a taxable corporation and while we will no longer be able to give tax receipts in Canada, we will have something that is very precious – that is free speech and freedom to preach the gospel with power in order to benefit those whom the church has long ignored.

The government agent responsible for trying to shut us down told us that there is no such thing as free speech while operating as a registered Canadian charity, yet praise God we are now free to preach the gospel without government intervention and we are working on expanding our ministry base directly into the US. We do not know how all of this will work out financially since we do not as yet have tax exempt status in the US, but we are confident that the Lord Jesus will fulfill his promise to us to bless our efforts and he is the one responsible for taking care of all the details.

All of these changes has been very time consuming for me. While I should be nose to the grindstone on our newest DVD project on the subject of the Trinity, I have been waylaid by the immediate need to switch our web site over to reflect our product ordering pages to the new US corporation so that any product sold from now on will go directly into the account of MM Outreach in the US and will enable us to start getting some income in order to purchase the rest of our stock.

For those of you who haven’t been on our product pages to see where my DVD is sold along with other materials that are used to reach out into the world of the cults and aberrant Christian movements, now would be a good time to visit. Any proceeds from the sale of our products will go directly into helping our ministry to move forward. Click here for our DVD ordering page and there are other product pages that can be accessed from this page. I do not yet have the Canadian & Overseas links working yet as it is very labor intensive. Hopefully this will be done by sometime this coming week, Lord willing.

While we may not understand how the Lord is going to work all of this out, we do trust him that what was meant for our harm, God is going to use for his own glory. Praise the name of the Lord Jesus Christ!

I do still intend to do a post on circumcision and how this “sign” is meaningful to the issue of women in ministry, but right now this post is having to take a back seat until I get the most important things done first. Please keep our ministry in prayer as we go past one hurdle after another. We are trusting in God, but you can also join with us in the prayer of faith. Also pray for me for my work on the Trinity DVD script. All of the changes in ministry have come at a time that I should be coming to the end of my research and writing and I am way behind schedule. The filming is scheduled to take place by the end of April to keep us on schedule so I could use some prayer too to keep me focused and on schedule.

So now you know why I have been distracted and largely unavailable. I am so glad that you guys have carried on without me 🙂 I really love the community that comes and visits on this blog. For those of you who haven’t received an email answer from me for sometime, I won’t be able to catch up too quickly. I have the rest of the product pages to update and then some catchup work on the Trinity DVD. I will try to pay as much attention as I can to my blog, but if I am somewhat spaced out, at least you now know why ’cause y’all now know the “rest of the story”.

Laugh your way to a better marriage

Laugh your way to a better marriage

Recently someone sent me a Youtube clip of Mark Gungor’s “Laugh your way to a better marriage”. Since we have been talking about marriage and women in ministry, I thought I would share this with you.

[gv width=”450″ height=”350″ data=”http://www.youtube.com/v/xxtUH_bHBxs”][/gv]

I purchased Mark’s 4 DVD set of his marriage weekend seminar after watching the clip. I think the DVDs are very helpful with some very helpful insights into marriage and why men and women struggle with seeing things differently. It is also very funny and I like insightful things that make me laugh. I haven’t had time to watch the last of the 4 DVD set yet, but if it is as good as the other DVDs in his marriage seminar set, I think he has a real winner. If any of you are looking for marriage help and wondering how mutuality in marriage can be worked out, I recommend Mark’s 4 DVD marriage seminar set. It cost quite a bit more than my 4 DVD set does, but I think there is good value in it.

Matt Slick's radio station to host "Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?"

Matt Slick's radio station to host "Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?"

Below is what I posted on Matt Slick’s discussion board. I will add the day and time of the airing of “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” when the radio station gives me the finalized details.

Scripture warns us not to make a hasty judgment on a matter. When two sides have conflicting interpretations, those who wish to be Bereans should be willing to carefully consider all of the facts from both sides of the issue first in order to avoid making a hasty judgment.

In an effort to allow the hearing of the other side of the story on the issue of women in ministry that hasn’t been given a full hearing on Matt Slick’s radio show “Faith and Reason”, the radio station where Matt hosts his radio program has offered to allow the airing of the 4 DVD set “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” over four consecutive weeks in the month of February. Listeners will then be able to hear and judge for themselves if the teaching on the DVD set treats scripture respectfully and in context. The entire DVD set is 3.5 hours of teaching and will be broken down into 4 segments to air over 4 weeks.

Here in Canada it is a ruling that if one misrepresents a person, they are given equal time to defend themselves and to present their side of the story. In the US, this is also a fair ruling and I greatly appreciate My Family Radio Station in Boise Idaho for agreeing that this is a fair and reasonable solution.

I am sure that Matt will also agree that this is fair and reasonable when Christians have biblical disagreements. It is only when we can hear the full story that we can then be bible Bereans and make the choice for ourselves which side represents a better biblical view.

The dates and times of the airing of “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” on My Family Radio are posted below. The DVDs are a very visual verse-by-verse view of the hard passages of scripture on the women’s issue. Although the radio will not do justice to the DVDs in that there will of course be no video or graphics, the audio that will be heard should be thought-provoking.

You can listen live to the audio from my 4 DVD set at the following link. The listen button is at the top right hand side and it will allow you to pick the radio station that you want to listen to for the times listed below. The link is http://www.myfamilyradio.com/cms/index.php Remember the times are Pacific and if you are listening at Eastern time you need to add three hours so instead of 12 noon it will be 3 pm and instead of 4 pm it will be 7 pm.

KBXL 94.1 FM

  • Saturday March 8, 2008 at 12 noon – segment one
  • Saturday March 15, 2008 at 12 noon – segment two
  • Saturday March 22, 2008 at 12 noon – segment three
  • Saturday March 29, 2008 at 12 noon – segment four

KSPD 790 AM

  • Saturday March 8, 2008 at 4 pm – segment one
  • Saturday March 15, 2008 at 4 pm – segment two
  • Saturday March 22, 2008 at 4 pm – segment three
  • Saturday March 29, 2008 at 4 pm – segment four

(Note: after the announcement of the airing of my DVDs, Matt Slick increased his attacks against me to the point that in August 2008 I had a Matthew 18 meeting and traveled twelve hours to meet with him in the Boise, Idaho area.  The link to the public statement regarding the outcome of this meeting is listed here http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/09/06/public-statement-regarding-matt-slick/)

Headcoverings and Authority

Headcoverings and Authority

While I still intend to write an article about 1 Corinthians 11 – Head coverings and authority, the video clip below which is an excerpt of part 3 of “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” is a good introduction to this controversial issue. Should a woman wear a head covering? Should she have no authority or even speak in the church? This hard passage in scripture has been a challenge to the church because it has been unclear why wearing a head covering for a male would shame Christ. A clear understanding of the reason for the shame comes from understanding the cultural background. This verse by verse explanation of the head covering issue from 1 Corinthians 11 brings a great deal of light to this hard to understand passage. This excerpt is taken from the 2nd DVD of the 4 DVD set called “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” available from Amazon.com or mmoutreach.org. Click to watch the preview clip below.

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Should a woman fear using her spiritual gifts?

Should a woman fear using her spiritual gifts?

Can a woman serve God with all her heart without fearing that somehow she is violating a commandment by God? This segment is a preview of part 7 of the 4th DVD of “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” This preview deals with the background and context of Galatians 3:28. Click below to see a preview of the DVD.

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The Designer Knows Best – Genesis reveals God's will for women

The Designer Knows Best – Genesis reveals God's will for women

Understanding the basics in Genesis gives a foundation for understanding the way God views women in ministry. In this segment from the first DVD of “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” Genesis is examined and compared against the opposing viewpoint which limits women in ministry.

Click below to watch a free excerpt of part 1 Genesis: “The Designer Knows Best”.

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1 Corinthians 14 should women be silent?

1 Corinthians 14 should women be silent?

I have posted a third preview of my “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” DVD on YouTube. You can view the preview of 1 Corinthians 14 below. Click below on the picture to watch the preview of part 5 found on the fourth DVD.

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To watch an excerpt from the section on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 click here http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/03/30/1-timothy-2-video-preview-now-available/

To watch the entire introduction to “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” click here http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/09/wim-video-preview-on-youtube/

1 Timothy 2 video preview now available

1 Timothy 2 video preview now available

I have posted a second preview of my “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” DVD on YouTube. You can view the preview of 1 Timothy 2:11-15 below. Click on the picture to watch the preview of part 4 on the third DVD.
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WIM Video Preview on YouTube

WIM Video Preview on YouTube

I have posted a preview of my “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” DVD on YouTube. You can view the preview below. Click on the picture to see the introduction to WIM.
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To watch a preview clip of the 3rd DVD on 1 Corinthians 14 should women be silent in the church click here http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/03/30/1-corinthians-11-should-women-be-silent/ 

To watch a preview clip of the the section on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 click here http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/03/30/1-timothy-2-video-preview-now-available/

What does 1 Timothy 2:11-15 mean?

What does 1 Timothy 2:11-15 mean?

I was challenged to present my view of 1 Timothy 2:11-15 on another blog and I thought it would be good to summarize my view on my own blog. Here is the teaching from “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” our DVD series on the hard passages of scripture on the women’s issue, presenting the 1 Timothy 2 passage in a nutshell:

  1. In context, Paul is dealing with false deceived teachers who are teaching false doctrine (1 Tim. 1:3, 7)
  2. Paul did not leave Timothy behind in Ephesus to stop the false teachers AND to stop all women who are teaching correct biblical doctrine – he only left Timothy behind to stop the false teachers from teaching false doctrine (1 Tim. 1:3)
  3. Paul says that he too had been deceived and he received mercy because of his fighting against the church was because he was ignorant of the truth and he had been deceived (1 Tim 1:13, 16)
  4. Paul differentiates between those who were teaching false doctrines because they were ignorant and deceived (1 Tim. 1:3, 7) and those who were deliberate deceivers (1 Tim. 1:19, 20)
  5. Paul names the deceivers (1 Tim. 1:20) but he does not name the ones who are deceived (1 Tim. 1:3, 6)
  6. Paul gives instructions to Timothy regarding how the men and women who claim godliness should conduct themselves in the church while they are in the midst of the false teachers (1 Tim. 2:1-10)
  7. All Christians should be praying for the lost even those who are lost in their midst – those who are embroiled in false doctrine (1 Tim. 2:1-4)
  8. The Christian men in the congregation are not to handle the false teachers with argumentation that might come out even in their prayers (1 Tim. 2:8)
  9. The women in the congregation who lay claim to godliness (1 Tim. 2:10) need to handle this false teacher situation with prayer as well (1 Tim. 2:9 “likewise” links back to prayer) and continue to produce good works (1 Tim. 2:10) and not expect that it is their appearance with elaborate dressing that will show forth the godly example, but their godly works (1 Tim. 2:8-10)
  10. Paul then abruptly changes from the godly men and women (plural) to the singular form of woman and man and deals with a problem of false teaching and a false teacher.
  11. Before Paul gives the prohibition, he gives the solution to one of the problems in the church. Paul instructs that “a woman” is to be given the opportunity to learn. This identifies the problem that she is not one of the deceivers, but one of the deceived. Paul never educates the deceivers – he names them, exposes them and shuns them. His solution to deception is education in sound doctrine and he never ever identifies the deceived.
  12. Paul tells Timothy that he is not allowing “a woman” to teach or authenteo “a man”. It is out of context to even consider that Paul is here stopping godly women from teaching correct biblical doctrine. In context the prohibition can only be the stopping of false doctrine and stopping a false teacher. (1 Tim. 2:12)
  13. We know this is false teaching that is being stopped because Timothy’s mandate to stop the teachers was only for false teachers. Also in the example given later of why the teaching is to be stopped, Paul ties the prohibition into the example of the first deceived woman (1 Tim. 2:14)
  14. Whenever gune and aner are mentioned together in scripture in any type of relationship, they are always translated as husband and wife. Verse 12 should be translated as a single wife teaching/influencing her husband.
  15. Paul has several times not identified people by calling them “a man” yet the context clearly identifies the “a man” as a specific person (2 Cor. 12:2, 5; 1 Cor. 5:1) 1 Timothy 2: 11, 12 follows that example as two people are called “a woman” and “a man” without naming them. They are not named because the wife is one of the deceived and Paul never identifies the deceived ones by name.
  16. Paul identifies the reason why the first man was not deceived and why the woman was. He refers us back to Genesis to discover the reason by stating that the man was created first and was not deceived and the woman was created second was deceived (1 Tim. 2:13, 14 and Gen. 2:8, 19) See Genesis 2:8, 19 in the Apostle’s Bible which is the modern English version of the Greek Septuagint where it is quite clear the education Adam had before Eve was created.
  17. The grammar from 1 Timothy 2:15 requires the identification of a single female to refer back to “a woman” from verse 12. The “she” from verse 15 cannot be Eve because the tense is future and Eve is dead.
  18. The only “she” in this entire passage that verse 15 can refer back to is “a woman” from verse 12. “She” and “they” are given instructions regarding her salvation and it is future tense.
  19. 1 Tim. 2:15 gives the answer as to whether the deceived woman can receive salvation even though she has been deceived by false doctrine. She (refer back to verse 12 the deceived Ephesian woman) will be saved through the Messiah born of the woman (the childbearing which is a noun and not a verb), if they (refer back to verse 12 the deceived Ephesian woman and her husband) continue on in their faith in God, love for the Savior, holiness, and self-control to stay away from false doctrine. This is how one deceived woman will be saved (and is a pattern for the salvation of all deceived teachers).
  20. Summary: Paul was not making a universal prohibition that stopped godly women from teaching sound doctrine to men. He was stopping one of the false teachers in the assembly from taking her Christian husband down the proverbial garden path towards the forbidden fruit.

For a full media production of this passage along with the other hard passages of scripture on the women’s issue, see our DVD called “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” available on Amazon.com or see a fuller version of 1 Timothy 1:11-15 by clicking here.

Does this exegesis make sense?

Can complementarians agree to disagree?

Can complementarians agree to disagree?

I sent a copy of our DVD “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” to the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood in February of 2006 and this summer I finally received a response. They have chosen at this point not to try to refute the video and have said that they will just agree to disagree. I think it is wonderful when Christians can have differing viewpoints and after working through their issues, at least agree to disagree. However in this case I am questioning whether that is really possible. I certainly can agree to disagree with them and still call them my brothers in Christ. However their position is that women who teach the bible to men are in sin. Can they agree to disagree when my brothers in Christ see me as living in unrepentant sin? I don’t think they have that option.

When you see your brother in sin, scripture tells us what to do if we see our brother or sister in sin:

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

So if one sees a Christian brother or sister in sin, they should try to restore that one to fellowship, right? Does this seem consistent with “let’s just agree to disagree?” What verse would one point to that agrees that sin is merely a matter of agreeing to disagree?

What about this one – scripture says that the one who is born of God will not continue living a lifestyle of sin.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
1 John 3:6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

So if a Christian brother accuses a sister in Christ of sinning against God by teaching the Bible to men, how is it consistent with scripture to “agree to disagree” and see the “sinning” sister as part of the fellowship of the body of Christ? How can the one practicing sin as a lifestyle be held in fellowship?

I certainly want to be gracious about this and to respect CBMW’s position, but it seems inconceivable to me that an organization of Christian men dedicated to spreading the complementarian position and who sincerely believe that women are in sin for teaching the bible to men can ignore my request for dialogue. I have asked them for their comments on my exegesis and if they believe I am wrong then to show me where I am wrong. It’s a no go. They aren’t interested. They just want to “agree to disagree”. Hmm……. Is that scriptural?

Another complementarian Pastor responds

Another complementarian Pastor responds

I am preparing a talk on women in ministry partly based on questions and challenges presented to me by a complementarian Pastor from a large denomination which restricts women from teaching the bible to men. Here are excerpts that he gave regarding our DVD teaching series on Women in Ministry:

I want to say from the start that I was very impressed with the quality of your production and the depth of reasoning present in Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free? This is a well thought out treatment of this controversial issue of women in ministry… It would have been easy for you to fall into a derogatory and disrespectful and even an antagonistic tone in this production, but you did not stoop to this level and for that you are to be commended. The tone throughout was one of respectful disagreement and honorable treatment of those who differed from you in your position. That’s grace.,,, I learned some interesting things from your teaching [for example](your handling of 1 Corinthians 14) – This was well done and your reference to Jewish tradition was powerful in making your points. Could Paul’s reference to “the law” in verses 34-35 be referring to a quotation from Jewish tradition? You make a pretty persuasive case that it is… Again I want to commend you on your work. It is well done, rational and reasonable, temperate, well organized, and of high technical quality… I want to say in closing, Cheryl, you and all those who worked on this project have done a magnificent job in presenting your case. I thank you for allowing me to review your work. It stretched me and forced me to dig deep and seriously consider what I believed about this issue.

I appreciate this Pastor’s willingness to be open to have his position on the women’s issue biblically challenged. This Pastor also gave me a list of questions and challenges that he believed needed to be answered regarding issues outside the hard passages of scripture and thus not included in the material in the DVD itself. I have answered his questions point by point and right now we are still dialoguing.

Pastor has his eyes opened regarding faulty traditions

Pastor has his eyes opened regarding faulty traditions

I recently received this email from a Southern Baptist Pastor who watched the DVD “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” this summer:

Yes I did watch the video and thought it was very interesting. You made
some very valid observations…Your DVD was excellent…I must admit that my eyes were opened away from some faulty traditions from viewing your DVD objectively and un biased.

The question is how do we contend without being contentious? Many people, even women are steeped in tradition rather than educated in Scripture. Lord help us all!!!

It is a great question that he asked.

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