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Month: July 2009

Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz discuss/debate women in ministry 2

Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz discuss/debate women in ministry 2

Judge on Women in Ministry blog by Cheryl Schatz

Last post Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz started a discussion/debate on women in ministry.  Here is a link to Cheryl’s Question #1 given to Mike.  This post will be Cheryl’s response to Mike’s answers and Mike’s response to Cheryl’s response.  Mike’s corresponding post on his Role Calling blog is here.

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Cheryl responds to Mike’s answers:

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Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz discuss/debate women in ministry 1

Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz discuss/debate women in ministry 1

building-bridges on Women in Ministry blog by Cheryl Schatz

Today is the first post of a discussion between Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz on the issue of women in ministry.  The discussion will take the form of five questions posed by Cheryl Schatz with answers by Mike Seaver and then five questions posed by Mike Seaver with answers by Cheryl Schatz.  The format will be as follows:

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New debate between Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz on July 27, 2009

New debate between Mike Seaver and Cheryl Schatz on July 27, 2009

Stay tuned to this blog for a discussion/debate between Mike Seaver and myself starting on Monday, July 27th, 2009.

mike_seaver

I have been in email contact with Mike Seaver in a very cordial way over the issue of women in ministry and he has agreed to discuss this issue with me publicly on both my blog and Mike’s blog simultaneously.

I have posed 5 sets of questions to Mike and he has posed 5 questions to me.  My first question to Mike and his answer will go online on July 27th.  Two days after that we will both post my response to his answer and Mike’s concluding response.  Both of our blogs will be open for comments and you may want to check out both of our blogs for comments as I am sure that Mike has a different audience than I do.

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Jimmy Carter leaves the Southern Baptist Convention after 60 years

Jimmy Carter leaves the Southern Baptist Convention after 60 years

Jimmy Carter leaves SBC church

Jimmy Carter writes “Losing my religion for equality

I HAVE been a practising Christian all my life and a deacon and Bible teacher for many years. My faith is a source of strength and comfort to me, as religious beliefs are to hundreds of millions of people around the world. So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when the convention’s leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be “subservient” to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service.

With these words, Jimmy Carter sent shockwaves through the SBC.  While one may wonder what took him so long (60 years is a very long time), it appears that his steadfast trust that the leadership leadership would finally do what is right towards their sisters in Christ came to an end.  Carter continues:

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Wayne Grudem – answering part 6 of his “Open letter to Egalitarians”

Wayne Grudem – answering part 6 of his “Open letter to Egalitarians”

Wayne Grudem on Women in Ministry

This is the part 6 of answering Wayne Grudem’s “Open letter to Egalitarians” and his “Six Questions That Have Never Been Satisfactorily Answered”.  Today I am posting his sixth question, Suzanne McCarthy’s answer and my own questions below that.

Question #6 from Wayne Grudem:

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Wayne Grudem – answering part 5 of his “Open letter to Egalitarians”

Wayne Grudem – answering part 5 of his “Open letter to Egalitarians”

Wayne Grudem on Women in Ministry

This is the part 5 of answering Wayne Grudem’s “Open letter to Egalitarians” and his “Six Questions That Have Never Been Satisfactorily Answered”.  Today I am posting his fifth question, Suzanne McCarthy’s answer from the Greek and my own questions below that.  My blog does not yet have the ability for me to use the Greek fonts so I have included a link to Suzanne’s article that has the Greek.

Question #5 from Wayne Grudem:

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Wayne Grudem – answering part 4 of his “Open letter to Egalitarians”

Wayne Grudem – answering part 4 of his “Open letter to Egalitarians”

wayne_grudem

This is the part 4 of answering Wayne Grudem’s “Open letter to Egalitarians” and his “Six Questions That Have Never Been Satisfactorily Answered”.  Today I am posting his fourth question, Suzanne McCarthy’s answer from the Greek and my own questions below that.  My blog does not yet have the ability for me to use the Greek fonts so I have included a link to Suzanne’s article that has the Greek.

Wayne Grudem’s Question #4:

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Wayne Grudem – answering part 3 of his “Open letter to Egalitarians”

Wayne Grudem – answering part 3 of his “Open letter to Egalitarians”

grudem4 on Women in Ministry by Cheryl Schatz

This is the part 3 of answering Wayne Grudem’s “Open letter to Egalitarians” and his “Six Questions That Have Never Been Satisfactorily Answered”.  Today I am posting his third question and my own answer.

Wayne Grudem’s question #3:

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Wayne Grudem – answering part 2 of his "Open letter to Egalitarians"

Wayne Grudem – answering part 2 of his "Open letter to Egalitarians"

grudem11 on Women in Ministry by Cheryl Schatz

In my last post I copied Wayne Grudem’s “Open letter to Egalitarians” and I listed the first question of his “Six Questions That Have Never Been Satisfactorily Answered”.  Today I am posting his second question, Suzanne McCarthy’s expert Greek answer, and my own challenge after that.

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Wayne Grudem's "An Open Letter to Egalitarians" and "Six Questions"

Wayne Grudem's "An Open Letter to Egalitarians" and "Six Questions"

wayne_grudem on Women in Ministry by Cheryl Schatz

In 1998 Wayne Grudem wrote “An Open Letter to Egalitarians” and in the letter he gave six questions that he said have never been satisfactorily answered.

This is the first in a six part set of posts addressing Mr. Grudem’s questions.

First of all I will reprint the “Open Letter” that is found on Mike Seaver’s Role Calling blog.  Right after that comes the refutation of Mr. Grudem’s question #1 by Suzanne McCarthy and after that I pose my own question to Complementarians on the error of their teaching that there is an eternal subordination in the nature of the Trinity.

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Women in ministry issue causes distrust

Women in ministry issue causes distrust

Distrust

This post is from an inspiration I got from Katie Cole’s blog and a two-part segment on YouTube on the issue of women in ministry from the series “Designing Women”.  Katie writes:

One Bible verse, quoted to me out of context on its own, is no longer sufficient for me.

I think you will find the two YouTube clips inspiring.  They show that women can speak up and women can make a difference.

Clip 1:  Charlene loses faith in her minister

Clip 2:  Charlene speaks to minister and Julia sings

Women’s preaching affirmed by scripture

Women’s preaching affirmed by scripture

preaching on Women in Ministry by Cheryl Schatz

Women’s Preaching Affirmed by Scripture

I recently came across a blog article by Pastor Brian Mann who although he is a complementarian, admits that God affirms women’s preaching.  Mann writes:

I am not sure we are completely biblical in many circles concerning the way God views women in ministry.  And considering this subject, there is much to learn.

Pastor Mann makes an excellent point about the personification of wisdom in Proverbs, and it is a point that I think we should make note of:

“Wisdom shouts in the street, She lifts her voice in the square; At the head of the noisy streets she cries out; At the entrance of the gates in the city, she utters her sayings” (Proverbs 1:20-21 NASB).

Here we have Wisdom personified as a woman.  And she is in places like ‘the square’,  ‘the noisy streets’,  and ‘the entrance of the gates in the city’.  These are places that are places of business.  It is where the elders gathered in 4:1-2 to decide on the fate of Ruth and Naomi.  And it had become a regular place where there elders of the city would gather and men would do business, legal business.  And to be known as a man by the elders or to be an elder of the city was indeed a particular privilege (See Prov. 31:22-23).

After giving the account where the women were sent forth as witnesses to the disciples of the good news of the resurrection, Pastor Mann states that the men did not believe the women.  Then he writes:

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